Need Sales Ammo - Genesis vs Artisteer for SEO?

[Dkart1008]

Hi All! I am a huge Genesis fan and have been using Studiopress/Genesis for several years.

In my market, I am beseiged with Wordpress designers touting 'custom Wordpress sites'. Many of these sites are created with Artisteer but are created from 'scratch'. Please help by providing me (and other Genesis shops) with sales ammo?

For example, I know that Yoast participated in helping to create the SEO framework design in Genesis. If I create a 'custom' Wordpress site using Artisteer - I know that Yoast will not be providing SEO advice on that site :)

I know what I think about the many advantages of using Genesis as a base. But for sales presentations, I really need to hear what Genesis developers know and can share!

Genesis Sales Ammo?
1. As a Genesis customizer - what are selling points/benefits for using Genesis vs Artisteer created Wordpress sites?
2. Any stats on SEO in Genesis sites vs Artisteer sites?
3. What are what are selling points/benefits for using Genesis vs a Custom created Wordpress site?
4. And, in your opinion - is there really any such thing as a custom Wordpress site? That is, since WP theme-based, aren't all WP sites a theme of one sort or another?

Just trying to establish a sales and benefits 'edge' for competing with other web design companies that advertise 'custom' websites.

Thanks!!!
D

[andrea_r]

Those kinds of sites use the word 'custom" to mean they don;t slap up an out of the box template with no changes.

An Artseer theme is just a template with minor changes . It produces messy, unreadable and often invalid code. It;s * versions* behind Wordpress itself.

Your edge with Genesis is you have the latest semantic code, that keeps in line with WP and adapts to the changes quickly and is secure, with an eye to SEO. ;)

[Dkart1008]

Thanks Andrea! That's what I needed. I would love to see Studiopress produce some kind of 'Product Comparison' - comparing features in Genesis to competitors (esp Artisteer).

A Quick Question: In your opinion, is there any such thing as a 'custom WP' site? And, what are the advantages of using Genesis over writing your own theme? [Note: I know the advantages of Genesis. But I have never written a theme; so maybe my knowledge is incomplete.]

What I think: It's a matter of semantics. You customize the WP theme. In doing so, start with the best theme possible - Genesis.

A local WP group had a recent meetup on 'creating your own theme' which was very well attended. Everyone wants to produce a 'custom WP' site - because that's what clients demand.

Your thoughts on this will be much appreciated! And very helpful!

[andrea_r]

A Quick Question: In your opinion, is there any such thing as a 'custom WP' site?

Yes. Anything that is edited in terms of design iss them considered custom. At the least, it;s been *customized* specifically for the user and site.

what are the advantages of using Genesis over writing your own theme? [Note: I know the advantages of Genesis. But I have never written a theme; so maybe my knowledge is incomplete.]

You could build a bicycle or house from scratch too, but why would you want to? ;P

A local WP group had a recent meetup on 'creating your own theme' which was very well attended. Everyone wants to produce a 'custom WP' site - because that's what clients demand.

Here's what they didn't mention - EVERY designer has a core plain theme they start with. All of them. Even if it was one they built themselves. Anyone who says they start with empty files for every single client is not going to be in business very long. :)

Programmers are lazy - they do not write the same code over and over again - they store it and reuse. :D

Most of them use the word "custom" to describe "you can't tell what theme I started with".

See the "custom" sites in the showcase? These all started with a *new* child theme from Genesis. Genesis provides the core functionality. They didn't rewrite the Genesis parts for every client. (cuz that's work they don't have to do) ;)

You can get the job done faster and better with Genesis.

[NicktheGeek]

I do custom projects on the side but I still use Genesis instead of building a fully custom theme because I know that the client will be able to stay up to date with Genesis and quite frankly I can code a Genesis child theme in about a quarter of the time it would take to build a 100% custom theme. Frameworks just make good sense.

[Dkart1008]

Thanks Andrea and Nick - perfect!

I advertise that I 'customize' themes. I think I need to start saying that I provide 'custom' themes using the Genesis framework.

So guys, if I am understanding the terms right: A written-from-scratch WP theme 'ages'. That is, as new WP code functionality comes into play - a hand-written theme will not automatically update (as with Genesis). So a 'custom theme' needs a coder to keep coding fresh - is this correct?

And, if coding in WP 'custom themes' is not updated - then the site may be vulnerable to hacking as new WP security releases provide added WP functionality. Is this a correct statement?

Opinions?: What about clients who have site mock-up in graphics and demand that a 'custom WP' site be created to exactly and precisely match the graphics mock-up?

I am seeing a fair number of prospective clients who love to play around with Publisher or Dreamweaver; and who create site 'mock-ups' that they demand be re-created 100% as it is in the mock-up - in WP.

I am seeing more PHP programmers (in particular) flocking to the 'custom WP' market. They reproduce the Publisher design by over-laying WP with CSS and PHP. I call this 'hacking' WP. Because in the process of precisely re-producing the graphics design - they disable major parts of WP.

You can still log into the site using WP - but once in - pages/posts cannot be edited. All you see on a page is callbacks to css stylesheets on the server. The client is ecstatic with the site until they try to edit a page.

Then someone like me is called in to 'fix it'. The only way I've found to 'fix' WP sites like this - is to totally re-create the site in WP, using WP functionality. Seeing a lot of sites from India done this way; and now, more locally.

Please - let me know your thoughts as to pre-sales talk about this? I see this as a major sale-stopper for Genesis and any premium WP framework.

[NicktheGeek]

There is no reason that a Genesis theme can't be done to match pretty much any design. Check out this design
http://www.studiopress.com/showcase/taste-media

[andrea_r]

That is, as new WP code functionality comes into play - a hand-written theme will not automatically update (as with Genesis). So a 'custom theme' needs a coder to keep coding fresh - is this correct?

Yes. Check out the list for 3.4 that is specific to themes - the custom header and background uploader have bene overhauled and things will need updating for that.

And, if coding in WP 'custom themes' is not updated - then the site may be vulnerable to hacking as new WP security releases provide added WP functionality. Is this a correct statement?

Somewhat. It's usually not a vulnerability in a theme tag that gets fixed.

What about clients who have site mock-up in graphics and demand that a 'custom WP' site be created to exactly and precisely match the graphics mock-up?

There's no reason why this can;t be done in genesis or any other theme. Pretty standard for a LOT of devs shops out there, actually...

You can still log into the site using WP - but once in - pages/posts cannot be edited. All you see on a page is callbacks to css stylesheets on the server. The client is ecstatic with the site until they try to edit a page.

Then someone like me is called in to 'fix it'. The only way I've found to 'fix' WP sites like this - is to totally re-create the site in WP, using WP functionality. Seeing a lot of sites from India done this way; and now, more locally.

The are Doing It Way Wrong. Way way wrong.... no point in even using WordPRess then. WHY anyone thinks this is a good idea is beyond me - Wordpress was *meant* to separate design from content. If you cannot edit the content itself, or even switch the window dressing of the theme, then they may as well have not built it on WP to begin with. They've crippled the functionality and created a bad user experience.


Don't compete with devs out of India - the price is so low, it's a losing battle. Charge what your time is worth. Educate the customer in doing things the WordPRess way (which is what we do here as well).

[Dkart1008]

Originally Posted by andrea_r

The are Doing It Way Wrong. Way way wrong.... no point in even using WordPRess then. WHY anyone thinks this is a good idea is beyond me - Wordpress was *meant* to separate design from content. If you cannot edit the content itself, or even switch the window dressing of the theme, then they may as well have not built it on WP to begin with. They've crippled the functionality and created a bad user experience.


Don't compete with devs out of India - the price is so low, it's a losing battle. Charge what your time is worth. Educate the customer in doing things the WordPRess way (which is what we do here as well).

Totally Agree, Andrea! I could go on about developers 'hacking' WP while presenting themselves as 'WP Experts'. Thanks!!!